Curse

Izu · Jul 23, 2008, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arya Nibelrund

; you don't need charity from DoM to take you in their team and tell you exactly what to do step by step.

offtopic: Since when was DoM good at HA O.o? IMO top rank GvG guilds seem to fail in HA

Ontopic: rspike < [incoming] < [savannah heat] ..... and why do people whine about channeling getting stripped? COVER IT WITH [Healer's Boon]

Free Sigils · Jul 23, 2008, 06:27 PM // 18:27

[Rend Enchantments]

Twelve Characters.

Arya Nibelrund · Jul 23, 2008, 06:51 PM // 18:51

DoM started out as an HA guild then they started to gvg after. Same thing with HnS when they were still playing; lately in HA DoM is one of the few guilds you can hope to fight in order to get a decent match.
Also, Incoming vs rspike is quite a horrible idea. Same thing with Savannah, it's nothing special against rangers (everybody knows they take less elemental dmg than anyone else).

wuzzman · Jul 23, 2008, 10:59 PM // 22:59

New monks are forced to play for crappy spike teams in order to get any fame. Later as they rank up, they discover that everyone runs a spike build, so from r0 to r13 they will keep playing spike builds till they convince themselves they are decent monks. Eventually their inability to monk without a 3 monk backline and 2 -3 layers of defense becomes a mute point since no one is running balance to begin with.

Arya Nibelrund · Jul 24, 2008, 08:33 AM // 08:33

If you don't heroway then yes you will probably get your early fame by spiking. Running an unranked balanced after 3 years this game's been out is a guaranteed way to get NO fame. From a monk pov though it doesn't matter too much if your team pressures or uses a melee lead spike for example (unless it's rspike). You will still receive the same damage from opposing team regardless of what you run (I assume that if you play a monk for a spike team it's either an a/d spike or melee lead spike, noone worth mentioning runs ele spike anymore). Different thing if you play rspike; that's so easy to monk for it's not even worth talking about. If you have some talent for this game you'll eventually end up being a good monk (a very important part of your skill level is given by experience).
Also, noone runs a 3 monks backline anymore (except again rspike). You might find a smiter but it will be usually a me/mo smiter, or a ritualist for party heals and weapon spells, but if i'm not mistaken you see a buff ritualist also in gvg? Some teams take also a water snarer for extra defense, but again you see that in gvg? For damage output HA is very different from gvg. Here you usually fight 8vs8 so there is a lot more damage thrown around in less time than gvg. Most of our matches are over in less than 1:30, when i pug we rarely fight for more than 8 minutes anyway. Having 2 monks only to keep you up is not enough for most of the teams. You will need some extra defense (water, kaolai rits, DA, blinds, hexes) for keeping up with a more 'arcade' style action and 3vs3 maps. You can't hope to hold for long with only 2 monks to keep up against 16 other players even if you're a god of channeltanking. It doesn't work like in gvg, there's no point comparing the 2 defenses. In gvg you can retreat if you're getting into troubles, pressure runner, split/countersplit, and you usually play a very close match until one of the 2 teams finds a window to score a kill. How many matches go to vod without any kill? Has it ever happened in HA to play 18 mins without a kill? You can't retreat, you can't split, you just fight till you win or lose.
Anyway, it is very possible to run a 2 monks build without any other defense, we do and we have been very happy with.

wuzzman · Jul 24, 2008, 02:08 PM // 14:08

Whats the name of your guild or your ingame tag so I can look for you in the hall of heroes.

Ben-A-BoO · Jul 24, 2008, 02:23 PM // 14:23

It is usually under your guru tag on the left side ...
just below join date

wuzzman · Jul 24, 2008, 02:40 PM // 14:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by timebandit

It is usually under your guru tag on the left side ...
just below join date

he is a part of them, gave me my lol's for today

Arya Nibelrund · Jul 24, 2008, 03:35 PM // 15:35

May I know who are you btw?

Xeng Suey · Jul 24, 2008, 03:57 PM // 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teh Jace

Who are u to say smth like this?

Everyone fails, everyone is bad. If that's true how can bad players (u all since everyone is bad) judge the others?
This place is completely f*cked up. Gimmickers are moaning about bad monks. U say HA monks can't monk without channeling and once it's stripped they start crying. Well what else can they do against 2-3 fire eles on crazy small HA maps? Srsly ppl wake up.

The most of matches is not about monks anyways. If a mesmer wants to rape u he will. If 5 of ur teammates suddenly decide to enter the burning circle called SH then u can't do anything about it.
Srsly the few things a monk can do: shouting at the frontline to train enemy warriors, keep his/her target on a mesmer, kitting (to take 200 dmg from scythe), remove veil after diversion is landed and switch sets as often as possible. Imo an average gw player can handle this, it is not hard. If u can't do this then stop moaning here and keep practising.

And low ranked ppl should stop crying and go make some friends. It rly helps if u wanna play gw.

The majority of guru population consists of pve players who like to attend pvp threads as well. It's rly easy to write shitloads of U-ALL-SUCK posts and submit them but instead of it u should try to act.

QFT

I hope who started this thread can read what Teh Jace wrote in his post and realise that many times middline and FRONTLINE cant even kite from the fire or other AoE dmg (not even mentioning Profanes or similars skills).

Peace

matti90 · Jul 24, 2008, 04:01 PM // 16:01

Guild Wars Guild Wars Guild Wars

Izu · Jul 24, 2008, 04:05 PM // 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Sigils

[Rend Enchantments]

Twelve Characters.

Sure, I may be wrong, but usually rend is only used on spikes, you're not gonna waste a rend just to get channeling, I've gotten shouted at for rending "useless" skills, so my own personal inhibitions might be reflected.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arya

Also, Incoming vs rspike is quite a horrible idea. Same thing with Savannah, it's nothing special against rangers (everybody knows they take less elemental dmg than anyone else).

MY guild has run dual incoming paras before, and against a fairly-poorly coordinated rspike it worked fine since you chain [incoming], but my point was that a Defensive team build can beat rspike, but will get chewed up by pressure< [savannah heat] [tainted flesh] [rising bile] etc.

The Way Out · Jul 24, 2008, 05:47 PM // 17:47

There are too many gimmick teams in HA that either strip Channeling and spike, or EDenial and spike with Depravity and Icy Veins or the like. Combine those gimmicks with a good snare and it's good bye backline. I play with r9+ groups that fail regularly. I wish Anet would take a good look at HA and see it for what it is. Balanced teams don't do that well anymore because backlines get wiped from lack of a good defense. An infuser doesn't have a chance in hell against a clean RSpike. I don't care who you are or what your rank is. Same with Ritspike. Are there bad monks in HA, absolutely. However, there are a lot of elitist Paragons, Eles, and frontliners that have no skill and need someone to blaim when they fail. 90 percent of HA is filled with people who don't understand that they need to get out of AoE or protect their monk. I watch Eles spam their skills and sit in AoE, forcing the infuse to spam on them. BAD playing, lack of planning, lack of awareness, and a broken system is what I blame.

Grugio · Jul 25, 2008, 06:42 AM // 06:42

omigawd, people whining about their channeling getting stripped? ffs, man up and actually use your skills intelligently instead of red bar protting and the spamfest that is HA monking.

Xeng Suey · Jul 25, 2008, 07:59 AM // 07:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grugio

omigawd, people whining about their channeling getting stripped? ffs, man up and actually use your skills intelligently instead of red bar protting and the spamfest that is HA monking.

You wan to kow why monks "cry"so much about channeling being stripped? ok! I'll point you out:

1 st - In HA, people Ball - Middliners the most cause it seems that in every pug i found nowadays, middliners are literally sleeping in their positions. They dont kite, dont call DA chains, dont call SS, rising bile, all those kinds of things u suposed to do.

2 nd - Since people ball, and since there is ALOT of AoE dmg and snaring in HA, red bars come dow very very quickly. So, channeling becomes important, so u can gain necessary energy to HEAL ur team mates since they are giving hands to one another so they can make the perfect ball.

3rd - There is alot of bad leadership and target calling nowadays. Everyone think they can be a nice caller by simply saying this or that...but its not true. bad tactics cause good team to FAIL HARD! And thats pretty comon in hA nowadays.

So if this reasons are not clear enought to you, or for who ever playing this game, about the channeling issue, go on and /uninstall.

Btw, what u call "wining" its not less then good people trying to get attention for the important matter that is: being w/o energy in HA. HA =/= GvG where u can stand a bit w/o your GoLE.

Peace

Nimble Night · Jul 25, 2008, 08:48 AM // 08:48

There are many factors that have contributed to the increase in bad monking.

the main problem has been that for a long time now the easiest way to get fame at a low rank in ha has been through spiritway. sway healer bars consist almost entirley of heals and spirits. the closest thing to a prot on their bars would be weapon of warding which is often not brought. in these builds the healers merley top off healthbars, rellying on their high pressure offence to wipe the enemys damage, or hide behind walls of dust/smoke traps. this type of build lets you get away with so called "red bar healing". now we have large numbers of high ranked spiritway players who have decided they want to try somthing more challenging and so have joined a pug defenceball group (ha balanced).

the large amounts of defence in most ha builds normally lets bad monks get away with red bar healing or protting. that is unless they are playing against a half competant mesmer. keeping channeling down is not hard, not with rend enchantments being so rediculously op atm making cover enchantments obselite. poor monks often will not even notice their channeling being stripped happy spamming all their energy away. but then not only the monks can be blamed for their low energy, the average skill level of players has dropped dramatically. tanking aoe, not kiting, kiting badly, many people are simply mentally retarded and will unwittingly drain your monks energy bar.

our next problem bad monk bars.

[build prof=Monk/Mesmer][Patient Spirit][Infuse Health][Dwayna's Kiss][Draw Conditions][Spotless Mind][Healer's Boon][Channeling][Heal Party][/build]

this is the standard infuse bar used in ha at pressent. note how energy intensive it is bearing in mind this will normally be the only source of party healing in a build. note how this bar can do very little besides top healthbars up. the only active skills on the bar are [infuse health] and draw conditions. however draw will just be spammed on the rc so we can cross that one off. the one good thing about the previous lod meta was the increase in hybrid monk bars that meant u could actually have a decent 2monk backline. not a prot monk that does all the work with a healer freeloading fame topping up the bars.

the prot monk bar is actually pretty good, but you cant get away with red bar protting vs any decent teams or spike teams unless you have several layers of defence like most ha builds. this is when people start noticing when their monks suck. if their heal monk actually has to do somthing (ie infuse) then theres a problem, ie the prot is failing. the healer has to spam its spells like a retard, often while not watching the mesmer, gets half his bar diverted, party degens to death.

and finally it has been a long time now since 3 monk backlines have been used over the now prefered 2. with less monks, expect to die faster.

Chaos Rofl Copter · Jul 25, 2008, 08:31 PM // 20:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Izu

Sure, I may be wrong, but usually rend is only used on spikes, you're not gonna waste a rend just to get channeling, I've gotten shouted at for rending "useless" skills, so my own personal inhibitions might be reflected.

Gee, rend the HB to apply pressure on the team? No channeling on HB = good time to team wipe opposing team since they can't heal party spam?

Lols

Quote:

Originally Posted by Izu

MY guild has run dual incoming paras before, and against a fairly-poorly coordinated rspike it worked fine since you chain [incoming], but my point was that a Defensive team build can beat rspike, but will get chewed up by pressure< [savannah heat] [tainted flesh] [rising bile] etc.

So, you have bad monks so you use incoming paras? Nice joke.

Monk Gsb · Jul 26, 2008, 01:37 AM // 01:37

so funny to see a r12 RITSPIKER ( yes he got most of his fame from ritspike mmhmm) QQ about another spike build on saying its overpower (im not oposing him on that, because it is.)

well they( rit and r-spikes) both have counters and they both were / are op, and they both packed alot of defence, vital's, bip, party heals, MASSIVE "hard to prot spikes" that do teh big dommage, + armour while XX or Vs XX wards and w/e else i have forgotten.

but in his eyes the one was ok to use (rit spike) , and the other is not (r-spike), and i can guess that he was not QQing about rit spike when he was winning halls and laming fame with rit spike.

but i just find the irony amusing :P

Kyle S · Jul 26, 2008, 02:19 AM // 02:19

im such a crappy monk